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 Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
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Author:  glocklover [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
Time to start the snowblower, lawnmower, Both generators and the chiminea! F the earth!
Author:  Hutch [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
Your avatar has a 'Jet' in it...thats not very Earthy. Bad fuel economy.

You need a green leaf or something. Start the thread over.
Author:  Cutter [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
If they want people to participate make it at 4 am not during the hockey game !!
Author:  Burrcold [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
I'll turn off my outside lights but that's it.
Author:  McGeeski [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
Go leafs Go 2-0 after 2 !!!!! sorry bout the Earth hour thing, but its the Leafs come on , who scheduled this stupid hour during a leafs game any way ?????
Author:  glocklover [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
I dont support it because it make no difference. In Ontario where 60% of our power is produced by nuclear, the power is produced and cannot be stored. so whether or not we use it or not it has already been produced. Lets just say we reduced our consumption by 10% it does not matter as the power has been produced anyway. 10% reduction in use equals 10% wasted production. I believe in real substantive changes, not just window dressing. Next time your kids lay the enviro guilt trip on you tell them your selling the second car and they will be walking to school every day. Its amazing how that changes their mind.
Author:  spirytus [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
glocklover wrote:
I dont support it because it make no difference. In Ontario where 60% of our power is produced by nuclear, the power is produced and cannot be stored. so whether or not we use it or not it has already been produced. Lets just say we reduced our consumption by 10% it does not matter as the power has been produced anyway. 10% reduction in use equals 10% wasted production. I believe in real substantive changes, not just window dressing. Next time your kids lay the enviro guilt trip on you tell them your selling the second car and they will be walking to school every day. Its amazing how that changes their mind.


Impressive numbers you got there :shock:

Got some real data to back that up?

Anyway, the only good thing about the 'Earth Hour' is raised awareness about an issue we generally don't seem to give a sh*t about. Think of it as being symbolic first step, an example to the younger generation in that; Hey, you may actually care about the environment? -- Caution: It's symbolic so don't kid yourself because unless you ride your bike to work, turned your weed-free lawn into a vegetable garden, and/or help out the local farmer, you can safely assume that you're also part of the problem...

Onto my point:

I think most will agree that we evolved to adopt and pull together as one when faced with immediate threats (a predatory bear for example). However, we completely lack the skills to tackle threats that start, incubate and finally manifests themselves over a longer time-span than an individual lifetime (~ 50 years give or take).

This topic has been in the news for over a decade now. Finally, a general consensus is beginning to form in the scientific community that yep, this sh*t is real, and we better do something about it. Unfortunately what now hinders a resolution to this problem is that there are a number of political, social and economical handicaps that we haven't evolved out ofand now make it a complete cluster-fu*k to solve.

While the politicians squabble over a problem they don't understand, media plays the clown, and corporate/national greed steam roll any workable action-plan that would threaten their 'bottom-line', we sit around on our asses and piss all over a serious topic on this very forum.

The environmental crisis we're now facing is analogous of cancer on a global scale; Treatable if dealt with early but once it goes terminal, all bets are off. Though the deadline on effective treatment is still a ball-park figure, most articles/videos I've read/watched agree that the window is rapidly closing.

So, invest some time to educate your ignorant ass on the subject. After you've grasped the basics sit down with your kid and start by apologizing for environmental disaster your about to dump in their lap. Oh, and turn off your god-damn lights for one hour.

Your choice.

Red pill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqPuKxXUCPY

Blue pill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWdUIwO15mU

Disclamer: This post was intended as a rebuke to most of the retarded replies I just read in this thread - which, in my opinion, reflect general consensus of the public as a whole, sadly - No offense to anyone above, specifically "glocklover".

....

Image
Author:  hvoriginal [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
Spirtysus
I love the way you lecture everyone with your air of superiority yet you choose to use the word retarded, for someone who is attempting to impress us all with your enlightened views all you have really done is demonstrate your ignorance .
Author:  Knave [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
spirytus wrote:
So, invest some time to educate your ignorant ass on the subject. After you've grasped the basics sit down with your kid and start by apologizing for environmental disaster your about to dump in their lap. Oh, and turn off your god-damn lights for one hour.


Would you support a $2/liter tax on gasoline, with the profits used to subsidize environmentally friendly choices like public transit or vertical housing?

Burning a candle to create more carbon during earth hour is symbolic of something, just not what most people think it symbolizes.
Author:  spirytus [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
Quote:
Would you support a $2/liter tax on gasoline, with the profits used to subsidize environmentally friendly choices like public transit or vertical housing?

Burning a candle to create more carbon during earth hour is symbolic of something, just not what most people think it symbolizes.


We're already taxed on gasoline (its working out real well):

Image

Circa 2008.

For the sake of argument, if you believe $2 / L is our ticket out of this train-wreck, and could convince me that it would not be squandered on bureaucracy, than yes I would seriously consider it.

hvoriginal wrote:
Spirtysus
I love the way you lecture everyone with your air of superiority yet you choose to use the word retarded, for someone who is attempting to impress us all with your enlightened views all you have really done is demonstrate your ignorance .


Not my intention, apologies if I ruffled your feathers. Reading back on it however, I did come out a little blunt and maybe even a little pompous, oh well. Your complaint registered:

Image
Author:  miltonLeo [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
hvoriginal wrote:
Spirtysus
I love the way you lecture everyone with your air of superiority yet you choose to use the word retarded, for someone who is attempting to impress us all with your enlightened views all you have really done is demonstrate your ignorance .

+1.

Wow, that was one of the most ignorant posts I've seen in a long time. Long on the lefty cut&paste drivel and even longer on the typical leftist condescension and hectoring. :roll:
Author:  Larshy [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
I shut off the lights and watched tv in the dark, I do that most nights though. The pot lights hurt my eyes.
Author:  glocklover [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
Impressive numbers yes, here are he facts. Nuclear power meets more than 50 per cent of Ontario's electricity (From The OPG Website) 60% is correct with in about a percentage or 2. Last nights reduction in use was about 6 %, down from 10% when this idea started. My point is that because of the nature of Power generation in Ontario, whether we consume the power or not, It has already been produced. So there for the power that was not used last night was wasted. Sell a car, move closer to work, walk more, Get a ULEV rated vehicle. Make your kids walk to school. Those make difference, turning of lights for an hour does nothing.
Author:  spirytus [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
glocklover wrote:
Impressive numbers yes, here are he facts. Nuclear power meets more than 50 per cent of Ontario's electricity (From The OPG Website) 60% is correct with in about a percentage or 2. Last nights reduction in use was about 6 %, down from 10% when this idea started. My point is that because of the nature of Power generation in Ontario, whether we consume the power or not, It has already been produced. So there for the power that was not used last night was wasted. Sell a car, move closer to work, walk more, Get a ULEV rated vehicle. Make your kids walk to school. Those make difference, turning of lights for an hour does nothing.


The energy produced is not wasted. Its not a physical commodity which you could dump into a pit.

Electricity production is managed dynamically by our grid operator and is driven by an on-demand market. As demand drops (I.E. the 6% we saw yesterday), power generation stations (such as the one we have in our own back-yard) are shut down, any excess energy is sold at a discount -- one of the reasons why its better to do your laundry after 7PM for example.

Once the demand raises in the morning, the generators are brought back online and the rates go up. Its a delicate balance of supply vs demand.

Furthermore, don't forget that Ontario exports quite a bit of its energy to adjustment provinces / states. For example, In Dec 2011 Ontario generated 13 milion in revenue just from power generation [ link ].

But yes, I do agree with you that turning off the lights had no real lasting impact on the environment.

I could argue that that we produced less CO2 due to the shut down generators, but due to the efficiency / latency factors of our aging grid system, the drop in CO2 production probably hovered in the 1~3% range and served no real purpose other than some scheduled maintenance.

The only good thing out of Earth-day is the raised awareness; a noble (but I fear hopeless) cause, but I don't think it should be pissed upon like it was in this thread -- I.E. the purpose of my original "leftist condescension and hectoring" post.
Author:  glocklover [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:  Earth Hour 2013 this Saturday at 8:30 p.m.
Power from nuclear sources is either used or wasted. Yes, there is a matching of generation to usage but at 8:30 pm on a Saturday demand is already low to begin with so the back up cogen plants would likely be offline anyway. The Backbone of Ontario's production is nuclear and the baseline power that is generated is either used or wasted. the system has the capacity to store about 3 seconds of power. Thats it.
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