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In my defence: I'm not doubting his competence. I never said anything about that. What I said was "I had a feeling" and the emphasis was on feeling,as in nothing concrete, but based on what sources had suggested and indicated. I think it's probably the two sides beginning negotiations- and it's up to him to go for everything- that's his position. Milton may very well be totally successful- and I hope it is. But I never, ever said anything about someone's competence.

I only meant to place the emphasis on the fact this was opinion... and nobody should take it very seriously- beyond a 'point' counterpoint discussion.

Sigh... I'll probably regret this post in a moment.

Its not as simple as just using all the slot money for things like this. That money comes in and is dedicated to capital projects and for infrastrucutre, for police services in the area and some money for the community fund.

By giving everything to the hospital fund (of which gets some $$$ from the community fund) other projects will be short and other sources of revenue might be needed. ie taxes

Re setting up a reserve account for the hospital fund ... Cindy Lunau's motion again its not as simple as putting money away.

Hospitals are regionally based. The funding for hospitals shouldnt have to come directly from the municipality as the services are used by everyone in the region, from Oakville, Burlington, and even Mississauga.

You cant be turned away from the hospital because you live in Mississauga or not from the area. The town of Oakville I think went into this the wrong way I think. That $200 million shouldnt just come from Oakville taxpayers as people from the region will be using the services.

It will be an interesting meeting in June regarding this motion but I hope that the first instinct of council isnt just to raise taxes. We simply dont have the base to cover it for a one time charge and I think that taxpayers dont want to give council a blank cheque for a multiple year levy to pay for something that all taxpayers in the region should put in for.

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Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett

I believe Councillor Mowbray is making a similar case for the Region to fund all local capital for hospital expansion. I think the approach to local funding is a done deal with Oakville and Burlington commited. Region funding would also not be a useful idea for Milton taxpayers (let alone Halton Hills) but the majority of Region Council representing south Halton taxpayers should love it. Better not to give them ideas.

Kinda like the 4 municipalities going out for dinner then splitting the bill 4 ways. Oakville had the 12oz. filet mignon and a $200 bottle of wine, Burlington had the lobster bisque and a single malt after dinner, Milton had a burger with a small coke, and Halton Hills had a glass of water to go with the sandwich they brought.

Historically, it has, as in Oakville and others. The municipality pays the local portion not the region. Either way, if we change it to the Region or keep it at the municipal level, it still raises the question that at the end of the day residents in Milton will be paying for it some way or the other (i.e. through our regional tax dollars or our local municipal tax dollars).

I'd take the stance that we need to be prudent, and look for ways at a municipal level we can start building up a hospital expansion fund in the near future. Through existing surpluses, budget cuts, gta pooling funds that get redirected, 'voluntary' dev charges, or what have you. Increased tax levies would be a last (to be avoided if possible) resort.

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The province pays all these things- if the hospital provides them, and again there's no gaurantee it will.

I think we'd better take it one step at a time. We're not even on the priority list of 50 communities- get there first. I keep saying it- the province could still say no.

Jan, I'm not really sure I understand your perspective. The province has demonstrated that it will give priority to communities that have the 10% funding for the expansion, and they require the municipalities to provide that funding to get an expansion. Thus, in order to ensure we are as high as we can be on the priority list is it simply not prudent to put together the funds required by the municipality? Short of all the municipalities in Ontario mutinying against the provincial government I can't see the province changing how they manage and fund services through the LHINs. IMHO it's a futile effort to buck the province on the funding issue and only serves to delay what's desperately needed in the community. Given the provincial debt situation, I seriously doubt they will change the general funding requirement. Best to continue lobbying to allow development charges to be collected and used to fund the municipal portion and/or other ways to raise the funds locally.

Yikes Jan! Are you trying to scare everyone? Where do you get your assumption that the cost of Milton expansion will be on the same scale as the new Oakville hospital?

Oakville will pay a $200 million share of a project I estimate at around $1.3 b-b-billion total. Burlington will pay a $60 million share of a Joseph Brant expansion of about $400 million total.

The only number that I have seen for Milton expansion is $200 million. Call it $300 million total for argument, times 30% for local share, split that with Halton Health and you get $45 million as Milton's share.

Lucky for us, we don't need cost estimates or tax increases until we get on the Province's priority list. All we need is to demonstrate that we are serious by giving hospital expansion a high capital priority and allocating some of the millions that are floating around to a reserve fund. Saving some of this money and forcing Council to look at capital priorities would be useful on their own merit.

There is no doubt in my mind that the hospital expansion is already overdue with the size of Milton today and in a few days Council will take a vote on the Business Park II Secondary Plan and the Boyne Secondary Plan against a background of uncertainty as to the future size and capacity of the hospital.

The whole question of the funding troubles me because we are already talking special levies etc designed to increase the burden in one way or another on the Milton taxpayer. Have all other options been exhausted?

Have staff carried out a comprehensive review of the Town's existing cost structure to see what costs can be eliminated without reducing service?.......... The private sector has had to become adept at this to ensure survival and does this annually in one form or another.

Has the possibility of the sale of Town's assets such as Milton Hydro been evaluated and debated?

Has the possibility of a public/private partnership for the expansion project either in part or entirely been evaluated (No I am not suggesting privatisation of health care - there are non health revenues arising in the hospital)?

Have we considered selling naming rights to this and other town facilities?

Have we looked at all alternates for financing the town's portion of the cost? Could we monetize future tax charges and spread the ultimate cost over a longer term?

I don't know if any or all of the above options are in fact doable or even desirable but I do know that they should be evaluated and debated if they have not been already!

The other aspect of the expansion project that troubles me is that we do not appear to have a Plan B. I know that in the minds of all Milton residents it is unthinkable that the expansion could be postponed but all planning needs to consider alternative scenarios - what is Plan B?

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Martin Capper

HVRA member

www.cappercares.ca
www.MartinCapper.com

Hi Martin, welcome to the discussion forum.

Milton Staff will be making a report I believe for the June 24th council meeting where I'm hoping to see some funding options.

But off the top of my head, there have been a list of different options that will fund portions of the local piece. It will likely be a combination of various options (i.e. not one by itself)
1. MDHF fund-raising for some of the equipment portion
2. Milton municipal existing/future surpluses, gta pooling money, or money from existing revenue/budget cuts (i.e. outside of special property tax levies)
3. Additional Milton property tax levy
4. Halton Region funding a portion (IMHO unlikely)
5. Voluntary dev charge contributions from developers (Halton Region debated and looked into this but reply from devs wasn't good)
6. Provincial Act Change to allow municipalities to include hospital charges in dev charges like we used to do (But so far province has basically been ignoring this request by municipalities in Ontario)
7. Financing (i.e. borrowing/monetizing what have you) a portion to spread costs over future years.

About a sale of Town Assets like Milton Hydro, that's something that really has to be evaluated carefully. Milton Hydro is a cash flow positive asset that helps generate yearly revenue for the town. Selling assets like that leaves us with a future loss of income that would need to be made up in other ways.

The province did something similar when they sold the 407etr and I always felt that it was a bad decision, but you'd probably know more about that than me

I'd like to read the report being generated by staff when it comes out before making any sweeping statements about where the money should come from. But the idea about naming rights is a good one! Sargent Farms Hospital? Mattamy Hospital? But seriously, why not?

My list is almost in order of 'most likely'. I mean #1 is an obvious one that everyone will get behind on, both citizens and businesses, but that only goes so far.


About the Plan B part..me and Laura replied back and forth on that previously (you can see my previous comments, I won't repost them here). But someone else who wishes to remain anonymous also PMed me this Plan B.

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Hi Rick

Thanks for the quick response. As I said as wide a range of options as possible should be on the table for debate and I would hope careful evaluation.

I suspect the leasing of the 407 will continue to be debated for years to come long after the reasons that provoked the sale have been forgotten. My role there was as the vendor of the technology. .

Perhaps we should have a Milton District Hospital $million lottery

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Martin Capper

HVRA member

www.cappercares.ca
www.MartinCapper.com

I'm glad to see somebody is thinking of a "plan b." The interesting thing about my question, is nobody has contacted me in any way and told me to stop asking it. Nobody has told me "off the record" so to speak what a possible "plan b" could realistically look like. And I find the non-answer interesting.

I know that asking this question of what could happen in the case of a "no" answer from the province on hospital expansion could make me one of the least popular people in town. But as a reporter I feel like I should at least ask it, even if all I'm getting are non-answers. And from Rick's previous post, it's obvious someone is starting to at least consider the possibility.

Not a bad idea really! It's got to be working for Princess Margaret Hospital Foundation or they wouldn't keep doing it year after year (this is of course my personal assumption - I may be wrong!).

FYI, after looking at the PMHF website I noticed they have an endowment fund with specific targets for reinvestment of real returns to grow the fund plus . I don't see anything regarding an endowment fund on the MDHF website though they're now accepting gifts of stock and securities. PMHF seems more organized though.[/quote]

[/quote]

Hmmm, after browsing the PMHF financials (cool that they publish them on-line), re-thinking how good an idea a lottery would be... Looking at what PMHF spends on them the return is pretty small (2009 - revenue was ~56K, expenses were 41K - prizes about 21K, marketting and other 19K - net gain only 15K. Would have expected more. Interesting....). They're a really big foundation too.

http://www.pmhf.ca/onlineReport/2009/PM ... ncials.pdf

The thing is the first reaction of council, be it town or regional, shouldnt be to raise taxes or levies. Other ideas have to be thought of when it comes to potentially raising MILLIONS of dollars.

Thats why I think that this motion by Councillor Lunau is flawed as its trying to set the direction for council to select option A or option B. Since option A is totally at the whim of the provincial government, option B is to raise taxes. These ideas are to be brought to staff who need a bit more direction especially with the little information we have.

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Mike Cluett
Local/Regional Councillor
Wards 1,6,7 & 8

Website | Email mike@mikecluett.ca | Cell (647) 888-9032 | Facebook Page | | Twitter @Mike_Cluett