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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:44 am 
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Hi Everyone,

Thank you very much for the lively and spirited debate on my desire to bring photo radar to Milton. As I mentioned I heard the need to examine photo radar loud and clear from voters and I am pursuing what I promised them during the campaign, i.e address the chronic speeding on certain roads within Milton for the sake of our children pedestrians cyclists and motorists.

I started a new thread to discuss the recent results of a Toronto Star poll on Photo Radar. As you will see, the overwhelming majority of that poll want photo radar. Very interesting. What I find also interesting in this debate so far is the amount of views on this topic. When you add up the three different threads that discuss photo radar the amount of views is more than 10,000 on the Hawthorne Villager over a very short amount of time. Amazing. Many many people are watching the debate and I thank them for their interest. As promised I will be discussing this with the voters in wards 1,6,7 and 8 this spring. As the debate evolves I will present exactly my proposal on how the photo radar would be used, and how the program would be introduced. Most important the voters will be driving the discussion. As I imagined Milton would lead the debate on photo radar in Halton region and we are.

In addition this spring I will couple the discussion with a petition to have a pilot of photo radar in a selected area over a period of time as a test to see if it truly helps us reduce the speeding in certain areas. This does not include highways as I do not plan to ask for photo radar on the 401 around Milton.

Thanks again, here is the Toronto Star Poll:

On November 16, 2010 The Toronto Star asked it's readers:

News Photo radar

A Toronto Liberal MPP wants to use photo radar outside schools and road construction zones to force motorists to slow down. Do you agree?


Results
Yes (61%)
No (39%)

Warm Regards,
Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor - South
www.yourtownyourway.ca


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Location: Fifth Line (at Derry)
Tony Lambert wrote:
On November 16, 2010 The Toronto Star asked it's readers:

News Photo radar

A Toronto Liberal MPP wants to use photo radar outside schools and road construction zones to force motorists to slow down. Do you agree?


Results
Yes (61%)
No (39%)

Warm Regards,
Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor - South
www.yourtownyourway.ca


Tony I have been unable to access the article would you please post a link. I am interested in the sample size that produced those results because as you can see from the poll I started on the General forum the results for Milton were dramatically different.

Martin

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:13 pm 
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Oddly, they don't list a sample size, but here is the link:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/polls

(It was from News, November 16th)

The one thing I will say, is the HV poll and the TorStar poll is phrased quite differently. The TorStar is specific around school zones & construction sites. I am no fan of photo radar anywhere, but if it was limited to school zones only, I wonder what the results are (problem is step 2 is everywhere else)

In this article, they do list a sample size, but its not very large...

Renkema cited a Harris-Decima poll her organization commissioned that showed 67 per cent of the 328 Ontarians surveyed Nov. 4-7 back the measure.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/arti ... a-comeback

What they propose in Scarborough is interesting. My fear is that once they got use to the revenue, they introduce it elsewhere and turn it into an ATM (oh look, we're running over budget, lets bring a few of these atms and we'll right the ship)

The Scarborough councillor said his proposal is for a pilot project to protect more than 1,500 students who attend Sir John A. Macdonald Collegiate Institute, Fairglen Public School and J.B. Tyrrell Senior Public School.

City council decided to ask city staff to take a look and report back after the Oct. 25 municipal elections.

Kelly wants to see a system that would flash the vehicle’s speed before the school zone, giving people a chance to slow down. If they don’t, then a photo radar-generated ticket would arrive in the mail.

“Under photo radar, the goal is to raise revenue,” he said. “Under my system, the goal is to have no revenue because you want everyone to obey the warning.

“If you don’t heed the warning, you get a ticket. It’s not designed to raise revenue. If it’s a tax, it’s a tax on stupidity, or carelessness.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto ... hool-zones


Last edited by Devious on Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Hi Martin,

Yes the results are the opposite of the poll you started, although the Star's is much bigger than the one you did here. I will do as you wish when I get back to my office in about 30 minutes.

Best,
Tony Lambert


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Hi Devious,

Thanks for posting the link. I hope this helps those looking to go to the Star regarding their poll. Very interesting. I believe the Star's sample is bigger than the 100 or so here on the Villager. The reason I say that is the Star poses the question to it's readership which is the thousands. Typically thousands respond to each Toronto Star poll.


Kindest Regards,
Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor - South


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Location: 4th line / St Laurent
The main purpose of the Toronto Star Article and Poll was to bring attention to construction zones and the number of unnecessary deaths of construction workers, brought up by the Ontario Road Builder's association.
Clearly a biased viewpoint, which has nothing to do with your reasons, Tony. Unless we're planning on seeing construction crews on Scott, Clark, Trudeau, etc replacing more curbs on a never-ending basis.

The correct solution to all of this is found here:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... owing-down

(scroll down for video)

(partially kidding on the link, but there's your winning angle, Tony - you're welcome!)


Last edited by Fred D on Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:39 pm 
Tony Lambert wrote:
Hi Devious,

Thanks for posting the link. I hope this helps those looking to go to the Star regarding their poll. Very interesting. I believe the Star's sample is bigger than the 100 or so here on the Villager. The reason I say that is the Star poses the question to it's readership which is the thousands. Typically thousands respond to each Toronto Star poll.


Kindest Regards,
Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor - South


Lets not jump to conclusions though Tony. It could have been less. In absence of fact, guessing in favor of your side of the argument does nothing but deminish your credibility. Yes the readership of the Star is in the hundreds of thousands, but 50 or 50,000 people could have responded to that poll, "we dont know at this time" would have been the honest response.

Lets also look at the fact that the HV poll is for residents of Milton. The poll for the star could have been made up of people from a variety of townships, cities and places not Milton. Personally I dont think its pertinent what they want, its what the people of Milton want. The people of Milton are the people you are representing right?

But to give you the benefit of the doubt, I would really like you to have a public live debate on this issue. Could you organize something? I think it would be a great idea to get people from both sides of the argument together to have an educated discussion on the issue, rather then the name calling that typically goes on in these forums.

Thanks,

SR


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:00 pm 
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Tony

I presume you quoted the Toronto Star poll because it is your intention to pursue photo radar as a solution to speeding in school and construction zones.

If that is your intent then could I suggest that there are alternative ways to solving those issues that fall within the scope of your appointment as a local and regional councillor. Many of these ways have already been raised with Council in the past - tools like chicanes, carefully positioned speed bumps, radar activated speed warning signs and of course the random speedcheck manned by police.

The process to implement these suggestions can start now. I suspect you will get good support from your fellow Councillors as at least some of them campaigned on the issue of improving safety. So if you have a genuine interest in improving the safety of your constituents why wait until Spring. Why start a process that is in fact ultra vires to your role as a local and regional Councillor.

Speaking personally as one of your constituents I would willingly trade your campaign promise to focus on bringing photo radar to Milton for immediate action that can achieve a better result without impinging on my legal right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

If you then want a longer term permanent legacy you could join forces with Zeeshan and others who have campaigned for comprehensive design standards to ensure future growth is managed properly to deal with this and many other issues.

Just one man's opinion Tony I am looking for practical solutions and I think you are Don Quixote - tilting at windmills!

Of course if you are truly looking to solve Provincial issues then you have the opportunity to run in October next year for Queens Park

Martin

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www.cappercares.ca
www.MartinCapper.com


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:05 pm 
As a new member of council I can't believe that this is the issue you picked to define yourself.

Photo radar is clearly a money making scheme. There is no deterrent and doesn't drive the point home like a police officer would.

Picking a Toronto Star poll to prove your point is beyond ridiculous and I'm sure that your constituents are happy that you think 100 people on this forum are nothing compared to strangers that were polled for the toronto star. Give your head a shake and focus on more important issues in this town.

Try focusing on the real issues and what the voters want.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:30 pm 
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I could live with photo radar IF and only IF it was restricted to the school zones and construction zones as in the Star poll.
However, like many others here I fear that it will grow beyond that and become a cash grab, and there are other useful traffic calming measures that could be applied in these areas and so I strongly feel photo radar should NOT be used.

Tony, I realize that you feel you are simply trying to follow through with your campaign promises, however I am confident (evidence: this forum) many people did not realize this was a major part of your platform and as such while you may think you are representing voter desires, in reality you are not. If you really feel strongly about representing your voters effectively, please consult extensively with them on this issue specifically, and I am sure you will find a much lower proportion are in favor than you believed.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:38 pm 
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<quote>Tony

I presume you quoted the Toronto Star poll because it is your intention to pursue photo radar as a solution to speeding in school and construction zones.

If that is your intent then could I suggest that there are alternative ways to solving those issues that fall within the scope of your appointment as a local and regional councillor. Many of these ways have already been raised with Council in the past - tools like chicanes, carefully positioned speed bumps, radar activated speed warning signs and of course the random speedcheck manned by police.

The process to implement these suggestions can start now. I suspect you will get good support from your fellow Councillors as at least some of them campaigned on the issue of improving safety. So if you have a genuine interest in improving the safety of your constituents why wait until Spring. Why start a process that is in fact ultra vires to your role as a local and regional Councillor.

Speaking personally as one of your constituents I would willingly trade your campaign promise to focus on bringing photo radar to Milton for immediate action that can achieve a better result without impinging on my legal right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

If you then want a longer term permanent legacy you could join forces with Zeeshan and others who have campaigned for comprehensive design standards to ensure future growth is managed properly to deal with this and many other issues.

Just one man's opinion Tony I am looking for practical solutions and I think you are Don Quixote - tilting at windmills!

Of course if you are truly looking to solve Provincial issues then you have the opportunity to run in October next year for Queens Park

Martin<end quote>

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your opinion. I am and will pursue what I heard from voters and the reason why I won the election. Thanks again for your advice but I will follow my mandate to the majority of people who voted recently in the new areas of Milton. That will not and does not change once I am in office. I do not and will not go back on what I promised voters once I am elected.


Best,
Tony Lambert
Local & Regional Councillor - South
www.yourtownyourway.ca


Last edited by Tony Lambert on Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Location: Heathwood- Playfair Terrace
so I'm just curious.....

By that last post, are you saying then that you would NOT support any designed structure to reduce speeds on Scott or other school/problem areas that you feel photo radar would??

If memory serves me correctly, you live in the Trudeau/Derry area...not in the Scott Blvd areas....leading me to believe that perhaps you don't frequent this area at all. If in fact, you are disagreeing with what the majority of us believe would be a viable solution (speed calming measures as suggested by Zeeshan, who lives in the area, and won HIS platform by those who LIVE in that area and not other wards) then I think your "survey" needs to be directed specifically to those in that area.....and looking to my neighbors in passing and suggesting to them what you are proposing....they are all laughing, and wondering why you are choosing to in a lot of ways "abuse" your newfound position, by springing this upon us.

Let's see....your pubic platform that you campaigned on was based on your personal agenda of parking issues....you were slammed for that, and made aware that this is not a regional issue but a local issue, and now you've moved on to photo radar, which is largely seeming to look like another of your personal agendas....and again it looks to me you are looking for ways to make it a regional issue, when it is both a provincial and local issue....

I'm confused.

Like many others have asked....please explain our direct questions, instead of hiding behind other quotes, and saying you disagree.

You are making yourself look "dodgy" by not directly answering these questions, especially when looking to get elected, you said you would make yourself transparent to your issues, and easily accessible. So far, you are murkier than a swamp, and only accessible when it suits you....

PLEASE ANSWER MY AND MANY OTHER'S QUESTIONS ON THIS SO THAT PERHAPS WE CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR REASONING ON THIS BESIDES YOUR APPARENT "MY WAY OR NO WAY" ATTITUDE......

Jessica


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:53 pm 
My sources tell me the following:

1) Province will have to approve municipalities this power
2) The above could take A LONG TIME
3) Region needs to approve as they are responsible for policing services (I assume this means he'll need a majority in his favour)
4) Milton council needs to approve as well

So it looks like a HUGE uphill battle for Tony. I don't think a few signatures on a piece of paper will cut it.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:58 pm 
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I fully agree...and am glad. I guess where I'm frustrated is we have a Regional councillor elect who has so many larger issues at hand, and is arguably wasting his time on such a battle.

In my opinion, that means that time is not being spent on the larger, and more important issues for Milton at the Regional level, and it angers me that we as a result, are not being represented appropriately because of this.

Jessica :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:20 pm 
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What's extremely frustrating is trying to have a dialogue with Tony on this when he is completely vague about everything. I would suggest posting details on your plans and engaging in the dialogue, or just don't post at all. Throwing a TorStar poll and vanishing for a week doesn't help anyone.

Martin has also suggested a number of positive changes that could be pursued AND implemented all before you even get to dealing with your photo radar plan. Why wouldn't you do this in the meantime? I can't imagine something like requesting extra police presence in one area would take longer to get approval for than a huge undertaking such as photo radar.

I would also tend to agree that there must be some sort of problem with the road design in these areas, because all I hear about is speeding around Scott/Savoline in the new area and I don't live there. I live right near a school and very rarely see people speeding past it, and never during pickup/dropoff times... Same with the schools on Laurier / Coxe area... rarely do I see anyone speeding through those neighbourhoods.


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