HawthorneVillager.com

Lost of good posts, specifically Bremer, good read thanks.

My last word:

You guys convinced me on one issue; Humanity (in its current state) pulling together, hand in hand, and resolving any global issue of this scale is a pipe-dream.

Not like I needed convincing.

However, this:


Or this:


Just doesn't cut it.

Ixor's video link simply points out the futility of "Earth Hour" - which I wont disagree with (see my first post). And here's a quote regarding Bremer's "30 years ago, the best minds were predicting global cooling" argument [link]:

Not the best source I know, but at this point I don't think it matters.

I've sifted through a lot of rubbish out there from both angles and done my research. Strongest evidence for it (besides my own personal observations) I've already linked - there is a 2 page summary on there (5 minutes to read). Go through it, find me the opposite but equivalent in quality and than we can talk. Until than, for me anyway, that particular debate is over.

Meanwhile I'll resign to kicking the can down the road with the rest of you, but at least acknowledge that the problem may in fact exists, and talk with your kids about it. Best time? Earth hour

From their summary:

Statistical uncertainty model based on recorded temp trends (post 1850). Here's the paper on its method ( link ) - Caution: Not a light read. They checked it after with other recorded events of that time such as volcanic eruptions which are known to cause dips in temperatures - it was consistent.


Lower your fiber consumption? Oh wait, that requires a minor lifestyle change, some people may take offense to that I take that back.

Edit: C02 data was not used in generating the temp trends. Corrected my statement above.

Global cooling was taken seriously enough by enough scientists to become something that was covered in the mainstream media for some time. Clearly it was incorrect, and didn’t have quite the scientific following that GW does today, but it does go to show that a lot of truly bright people can get a lot of these things completely and totally wrong.

I don’t doubt that the planet has warmed. That’s pretty much indisputable. But these models and forecasts of the future are extremely complex things and highly suspect. They may or may not be correct. I honestly have no faith in either side of the argument when it comes to predictions.

Given that, I still revert to my earlier belief that regardless of if it’s true or not, there’s nothing you can do about it. We would be far better off simply adapting to it. I refuse to believe that it will be an ecological disaster like it’s painted in the media. Even if that turns out to be true, we have some simple backup plans, such as spraying soot into the atmosphere (simulating a volcano eruption), that would reverse warming almost immediately and could be done relatively cheaply. Obviously that’s not a desirable plan, but its an option if this turns out to be a major problem 100 years from now.

We can deal with this and still continue to live modern lifestyles.



Is that the famous hockey stick graph? If so, that thing has been thoroughly debunked and proven to be based on flawed mathematics.

Did you know that:

Galileo was funded by the Church.

There is some evidence that Copernicus might have even been a priest.

The Church set up the earliest universities.


Here is an interesting link that talks about some of this:
http://al007italia.blogspot.ca/2009/02/ ... ch-it.html


Tom

_________________
Jezu Ufam Tobie

Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Non draco sit mihi dux!

Oh no, you misunderstand.
The video points out that Man Made Global Warming has become an anti-human religious cult.

I don't mind religion, its a religion that is anti-human that bothers me.


Tom

_________________
Jezu Ufam Tobie

Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Non draco sit mihi dux!

And they also condemned him to house arrest for the rest of his life after convicting him of heresy for his findings.

I won't claim to be an expert on the matter, but I suspect the church had a much bigger role in the government of the land back in the 1600's. So it may be true that he was funded by them, but to post that information, as if to suggest that the church is accepting of the pursuit of science is loose to say the least.

But that will swing you guys way off topic now.

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Did you read the link I posted? He was neither charged nor convicted of heresy.
I not claiming the church was perfect, he should not have been tried at all.
But its all more nuanced than the black and white version of history that is often presented.

Back to global warming (to paraphrase a previous spirytus quote "yes please")


Tom

_________________
Jezu Ufam Tobie

Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Non draco sit mihi dux!

I'm familiar with Dinesh D'Souza and his points of view.

Again, I was not around in the 1600's, nor can I comment on the record keeping done during them, but it seems his take on that part of history is different from that of many other record keepers who seem to be unified in the results of his trial.

Anyway.. as you were.

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Nice Chart.


Now, here are the problems I have, without examining how it was constructed and from what data (I confess to not being competent to do this ):

What else happened in that time that is not shown?

Correlation not causation.

Do rising CO2 levels cause the temperature to rise?

or

Does the rising temperature (By means unrelated to CO2 production) release CO2 somehow? Perhaps from the earth's oceans.


And a question unrelated to the chart.
Assuming temperatures will keep rising, will the earth's atmosphere not start dissipating excess heat into space?

Final question.
How do the sun's changes in its magnetic field and therefore cosmic rays striking our atmosphere affect cloud formation on earth.
Clouds reflect sunlight.

The above is a competing theory to man made global warming.
It was found that that cosmic rays do "seed" (start) clouds. The questions that still remains is how significant is this phenomena.

These test were done a year or two ago at the hydron collider in Europe.
Causing controversy as some people immediately started defending man made global warming by dismissing the results.


Tom

_________________
Jezu Ufam Tobie

Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Non draco sit mihi dux!