HawthorneVillager.com

Hello,

I am thinking about getting our house basement finished. However I am trying to understand the permit process in Milton. If anyone has officially gone through it, please provide details.

1. What is the process and what information do I need to supply?
- From the website, it seems like I will need to have proposed drawing of the layout. Anything else?
- How much is the cost? From the website it seems like the cost is $0.45 / sq ft.
- How long does the permit take? How strict is the approval/rejection process based on the plan?
- Does the cost go up if I build a room in the basement or a bathroom vs. just drywalling the edges?
- How long is the overall process (time wise) and how beurocratic is it (i.e. do I just submit the paperwork and get it stamped, after paying $$ or do I have to show up to random meetings and justify / get neighbour's approval etc)?

2. I am trying to understand the value of the permit.
- To me it seems like I would just increase the property tax associated with the house in the future.
- I am not planning to rent out the basement and it is for children to play in. Hence seems a bit odd to apply for permit.
- What if I don't get the permit? Does the work get audited if someone complaints only? What are the risks?

Thanks.

if you're doing it yourself and you know how to build, how to do electrical, wire you fuse panel etc, you don't need one.

if you're getting someone to do it, i'd most definatly get a permit or get them to get a permit.

doing a basement is straight foward, except the electrical. you don't do it right, you'll burn your house down and then insurance will not cover stating you didn't to it to code. burn your next door house in process, you're getting to get sued.

if and when you sell, buyer might want to see you go the right permits before they buy

@ PP Ummm... posting on the internet that you did not get permits is not keeping it low key

@ Neeraj lots of people do not get permits because property taxes will go up. If our government was smart they would not raise taxes for this. (only for basement apartments) They would make more money off permits, if people did not have the fear of raised taxes. And our basement would be finished by professionals who know what they are doing, cause no one would be trying to hire an unqualified person who will do anything for a dollar.

The cost benefits can be argued all day long, but there is one definite risk.
Insurance.
IF there's a problem down there, nothing will be covered.
2nd:
IF a bigger problem STARTS down there, (i.e. electrical fire), with no permits or ESA inspections on file, you might lose a heck of a lot more.

I wouldn't steer a client away from a house done without permits, assuming the home inspection shows no defects and the clients are ok with the risks, but every individual should know all the risks before deciding...

Call your insurance company and ask what they cover in different scenarios. This forum shouldn't be your only source for information on this topic, great to see you've done some research first.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do (or don't if you're keeping it private!)

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we didn't do any plumbing work, so all I got was an electrical permit and inspection. We changed nothing structural, etc so why the heck should I pay more to the city in taxes because I put some wood and drywall up in my basement?? I'm not having more people live here due to that!!

I don't even have a timeline in mind of when to start and/or finish the basement. I am at very initial stages and wanted to understand the process. It might be that we don't get the basement finished (hence permit point may become moot). Hence I don't know where I may incline.

Based on all of the above, would it be sufficient for insurance purposes to have a certificate from electrician that work is done correctly? So hiring an electrician during building process to review the electrical work and ok it?

an electrician will still need to get a permit and have it inspected by the ESA.

George (electrician 4 u) on this site can help with that.

The rest I did myself or contracted.

For basements, I have changed my mind about permits and whether they are required or not. So IMO, where no structural things are being done I would not bother with permits from the town but there are risks if you do not have work done properly.

I looked into this issue by calling the Insurance Institute of Ontario and by calling my own insurance company for their opinions on this issue and they put it like this.

If for example you do not get permits and there is an electrical fire then the insurance company will try to determine the cause. If it is caused by negligence then you may have a problem but if it is caused by an accidental failure of some sort then you are 100% fine whether you got a permit or not.

But, based on what I have seen only 50% of the finished basements I see in newer home are good and a few are great. The rest are complete butcher jobs done by hackers.

A week ago I inspected a newer home with a finished basement and the job was one of those typical butcher jobs with typical problems.

- The sump pump was a pedestal type where the float lifted as water entered the pit. As the float lifted, a metal rod also lifted above the sump pit. The contractor decided to install a built in bench that when closed prevented the rod from lifting. When I opened this bench the float bar popped up and the full sump pit pumped like crazy.

- The basement Air Return was missing - covered with drywall.

- The builder forgot to install joist hanger nails at the joist hangers for the basement stair landing and you would think the contractor would spend $3. for a box of nails and fix that.

- The furnace room had no grate on the wall for air for combustion.

- The wiring was pitiful.

- The bathroom outlet was behind the sink and not GFI protected. Both are code violations.

- The basement bathroom sink drain had no trap and leaked.

etc, etc, etc.

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For Home Inspection services call Andy Shaw at Halton Home Inspection Service. 905 876 4761

1. What is the process and what information do I need to supply?
- From the website, it seems like I will need to have proposed drawing of the layout. Anything else? You need 2 copies 11x17 each of as is, and proposed. You can make them yourself.
- How much is the cost? From the website it seems like the cost is $0.45 / sq ft.It's based on the square footage of the finished area, yes.
- How long does the permit take? How strict is the approval/rejection process based on the plan?They made notes and minor modifications on my plan, but it was approved in 10 business days
- Does the cost go up if I build a room in the basement or a bathroom vs. just drywalling the edges?It's based on the square footage of the finished area, but I'm not sure how much work qualifies as "finished".
- How long is the overall process (time wise) and how beurocratic is it (i.e. do I just submit the paperwork and get it stamped, after paying $$ or do I have to show up to random meetings and justify / get neighbour's approval etc)?10 days for approval of drawings. No meetings, or neighbours' approval required for basement finishing

After the initial building permit, you call in inspectors at various phases. There are different inspectors for different things. I imagine part of the permit fee covers their salaries. If you call by 3pm, they'll come and inspect the next day.

^^^ Great answers. Some people have the knowledge to deal with projects like this. The "modifications" they make, often make a huge difference.

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For Home Inspection services call Andy Shaw at Halton Home Inspection Service. 905 876 4761

This certainly clears the air - Thank you for this very useful information - Much appreciated.

just to add to this, they worked with me while I was there to make the modifications before submitting, so I didn't have to go back home, re-work and bring it back. Working with the Town was actually a pretty good experience, and the process wasn't as bad or burdensome as I thought it was going to be.

One thing we have noticed many times about people finishing the basements is they tend to forget how this affects things above the basement.

Once the basement ceiling is drywalled that can several restrict you from adding anything new down the road.

Finishing off the central vacuum pipe to the garage. Countless times we have come in after a basement has been finished to install a vacuum and we can't because the pipes were never connected up through the basement.. This is usually a resale home where the previous owner didn't bother.

Adding any sort of extra wiring to the main floor and second floor like TV jacks, telephone jacks, network cabling, speaker cabling, and more.

Another big one is cameras. If the basement is finished, then it is nearly impossible to add cameras around the outside of your home without either leaving the wiring exposed, or having to cut into drywall.

Even if you have a drop tile ceiling, removing the tiles does not always help get up inside the main floor exterior walls because of how things are framed in the basement.

Please consider these things before you finish your basement.

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Another thing was that we changed the HVAC exhaust pipe in the area where the ceiling would be finished. I'm sure someone knows more about this, but it had to do with it needing to be a different type if/when we replaced the furnace in future. It wasn't required, but would save time (eta: and money) in the future.

My advice....definitely get an electrical permit. It's separate from a building permit and it's done by the ESA. ESA doesn't ask for building permits and couldn't care less about them, they only care about the hydro. Down the road if you have an electrical fire and you don't have the permit, the insurance company will laugh at you and hang up the phone. You can apply online to get the permit started and then have the final inspection done before the drywall goes up.

http://www.esasafe.com/contractors/esas ... line-links

P.S. A downstairs bedroom legally requires larger windows amongst other things, and it's only considered a bedroom if the room has a closet.